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A spokesman of Peoples Democratic Party’s Atiku/Okowa Presidential Campaign, Chief Dele Momodu, was at the Tribune House during the week. He was interviewed on a wide-range of issues surrounding next month’s presidential election. Deputy Editors, SAM NWAOKO, SAHEED SALAWU and DARE ADEKAMBI bring excerpts:
Your candidate has been given this bad image of being a very corrupt person. Aren’t you worried about that?
There is a saying that the white man who produced the pencil also produced the eraser. I’m sure the famous misperceptions came from his former boss, Chief Olusegun Obasanjo. But his same former boss copiously endorsed Atiku in 2019. The Yoruba say in the days of disagreement, people can speak in anger. This happens at homes too – when even your wife will say you’ve never left money for food at home when she’s angry. So, it’s the same thing that happened. Atiku Abubakar is probably the most investigated man in Nigeria. I’m not aware that Tinubu has ever been investigated in Nigeria with all the horrendous things and stories about him. He’s been able to maneuver and meander to escape such scrutiny that Atiku has suffered. For years they told us that he couldn’t go to America because he is a wanted man in America. He went to America before 2019, he’s been to America this time. He was at the White House. Before you can go to the state house it means that they’re already looking at you and thinking this is likely to be the winner. He is the only one, I don’t know of any other person who had had that level of interaction. Only last week, he came back from London where he met high-ranking British officials and also met the Archbishop of Canterbury. If you’re talking of international contacts, connections, experience, exposure, business acumen, he’s the only presidential candidate that I know who, out of office at that level, has been able to maintain a high level of business. He has the Midas touch. Everything he’s touched has turned to gold. He has never been a liability on government. He started business very early in life because he lost his father when he was very young. He left his poor unlettered mother. I read in his biography that before he was 20, he had struggled to build a house for his mother.
So, if we’re referring to the book published by Chief Obasanjo, I believe that it was exaggerated. I don’t know of any man who is a saint. I’m not a saint, President Obasanjo is not a saint but I can say Atiku Abubakar has done extremely well by subjecting himself to the highest level of scrutiny. Do you think if President Obasanjo had serious evidence against him, he would not prosecute him? You know Chief Obasanjo would not spare anybody. That you can give to Baba. I’m relatively close to him, he was angry but for him to endorse Atiku in 2019, I’d say what happened is, like Chief MKO Abiola used to say “the last thing a man hears before he goes deaf is what he repeats.” So, people are going to repeat and regurgitate those tales by moonlight. I don’t know of any great man in history who did not have tales around him whether good or bad. Even Jesus Christ, his people still don’t accept him as a saviour and messiah. With greatness comes all kinds of speculations.
Related to what Chief Obasanjo said in his book are the allegations that are trending from someone who said he was the media aide of your candidate. The spokesperson of the APC Presidential Campaign Council, Festus Keyamo said he has gone to court and added that he was ready to step down as a minister to pursue the matter. Thus, there are the allegations by a former aide of Alhaji Atiku Abubakar and the legal angle brought to it by Mr. Festus Keyamo. How do you see it?
I’m not in a position to speak about legal issues. As far as I’m concerned, Festus Keyamo is just a troublesome interloper who is looking for attention at all times. And what he has done with that is that he has done more damage to Tinubu than to Atiku. Senator Dino Melaye spoke on a television Programme and brought new insights to the issues because a lot of people who were not looking at it that way started seeing Tinubu in another light. What Dino said was that Nigeria cannot have a president who is a Pablo Escobar and a Vice President who is Osama bin Laden. Like I said, I will not say that anybody is perfect because I’m not perfect, but nothing in Atiku compares as negatively as in Tinubu. Tinubu is my friend, I don’t like talking about him but Festus Keyamo is always drawing us out. My duty is to defend my principal and when this man comes with his gutter language and behaviour, it is unfortunate. So, I don’t like it if I have to wrestle with a pig but he’s decided that that’s what he wants. Atiku has told us frontally and clearly that he wants to run issue-based campaign and you can see him. If you like slap him, he can turn the other cheek. That’s him, otherwise he would have replied Baba Obasanjo long ago. That is why that misperception was able to stick on him. But it is in the character of Fulani. They don’t make noise. A lot of us make noise about a lot of things whether we know the truth or we don’t know it; whether we have the facts or we don’t have it. We just like to whip up all kinds of things. So, Festus Keyamo is welcome to go to court, he’s welcome to waste Tinubu’s money, they’re wasting it already on funding a serial blackmailer from escaping from Nigeria to wherever he’s hiding. Nobody is pursuing him. But we know the details, we know what happened and we know why he’s doing what he’s doing. That wasn’t the first time he would release the thing, he was looking for a potential buyer and they’ve bought it. So, when they go to court, we will see what will come out of it. But do you know how many petitions that have been written to EFCC about Tinubu and nobody has ever touched him in Nigeria? Case of bullion van, nobody touched him. Did you ever see Atiku comment on it? No way. Case of narcotics, whether of drug abuse or drug proliferation and trafficking, we didn’t get involved. It is because if I don’t have proof or evidence, I keep quiet. That’s all. So, expect these people to know.
The reason they’re doing it, they can see; next month is the election and Tinubu is going to lose the election. So, they have to grab at every straw, at everything they can get to attack Atiku Abubakar but trust me, the man has become a porcupine. When people have beaten you and beaten you over time, you turn into a porcupine and nothing can touch you again.
You are so sure that Tinubu is going to lose.
Yes. I have no doubt.
But he has the North: North West, North East…
I told you I’ve contested twice. Once I contested, second one I attempted. I can tell you that for anybody to be president of the country, you must first of all lock down your own territory. It’s a simple theory, if you don’t lock down your own territory, how can you rely on others? That was what happened to Wike. I was rebranding Wike in the last two years. I lived more with Wike in Port Harcourt than with my wife in Lagos and I knew Wike wanted to run, Wike never told me he wanted to run. I knew and I wrote him a letter, on March 30th last year. I wrote him and I copied Chief Mike Ozekhome SAN and I copied the former Attorney-General and Minister of Justice, Mohammed Adoke. They are our mutual friends. I told Wike that ‘I know you want to run and that you said you are fighting for the South, but you’re not going to get it’. I pleaded with him that if you truly love the South, when you’re fighting a cause, you cannot be the sole beneficiary. I told him clearly. You will think I was watching my crystal ball. He didn’t listen, in fact that was when he stopped picking my calls. But I’m happy that I put it on record. I met a former governor, who is one of his good friends, who told me the next president of Nigeria is Wike. I said how? He said he had bought people in Borno, he has bought people in Kano, he has bought them in Kaduna; everything was about money. It’s the same mentality Tinubu has. Anybody who know Tinubu knows that it’s all about cash. That’s why the bullion van, till tomorrow, nobody has challenged him on it. It’s all about money. But I know that nobody has ever succeeded in buying Nigeria with money. The Northerners are not stupid. So, the Yoruba and the Igbo who are abusing them, you think those people don’t have ears, or they don’t have brains; you think they are ready to go into extinction when they put their enemies in power? All the pretense about Muslim/Muslim is because Tinubu knows that he is not a Muslim. He cannot even recite ordinary Fatiha.
So, the man will hang on to religion because he knows that he has nothing substantial to offer Nigeria. He has never played at the national level. He has only played in Lagos. Even in the South West, he is not in control. In Osun State where he comes from, he is from Iragbiji, they trounced him and his cousin or nephew or whatever. That’s the first signal. That’s the first signal to you that Tinubu does not have his base. When Buhari was running, Buhari has a base. What he needed was to now go to the South and get whatever bonus he needed. Tinubu does not have a base and he now wants to go and grab another man’s base. How? Unfortunately, I don’t know who tricked him into it. Maybe he saw himself as MKO Abiola because most of the things he is doing is like he sees himself as MKO. He went and picked a Kanuri man from Borno as his vice. What vote can that give you? Everyone knows the existing rivalry between the Kanuris and the Hausa/Fulani. Someone has advised him to go and take a refund from whoever is taking his money, because they will chop your money. They chopped Wike’s money and he’s inconsolable. Nobody can console him.
Sir, do you think it’s fair and would you in all good conscience defend this: That after Buhari, we should have another Fulani man?
This question is because many of us don’t check our history. Return to democracy in Nigeria is 24 years. In 24 years, the South has spent 13 years, the North has had 11 years. If Goodluck Jonathan did not lose in 2015, it would have been 17 years. Did anybody complain at the time? Jonathan would have been the only Nigerian in history and against our constitution, who would have been sworn in three times. Let’s be fair. Everybody talks Fulani, how many Fulani apart from Yar’Adua and Buhari – and that’s a total of 11 years, we have done 13 years and would have had 17 years if Jonathan had won – and we are still complaining that it’s not fair. What’s not fair, are they not part of Nigeria? And politics is a game of numbers… Was it not Wike and co who threw our zoning formula out of the window?
How sir?
I participated in that process. It was Wike who sacked Uche Secondus. Secondus is from Rivers State with him. Because Wike had an ambition, he had to eliminate his chairman so that he can have a smooth sail. When I bought my form, the day I went to submit I was the only person who had the courage to challenge the party that I’m buying a form but you have not told me if you are practicing zoning or not. They left us in total darkness because of Wike. Wike did not buy form until the last minute. His best friends and lieutenants – Lee Maeba, Austin Okpara – he never told them. He was playing hide and seek. Was it not Wike that brought Iyorchia Ayu? Is Ayu not from Benue? It was Governor Samuel Ortom of Benue State who sat on the panel and they said it should be a free contest. Why do you think Peter Obi left? Peter Obi ran away because he had no capacity to match Wike. Wike was alpha and omega, they were just dribbling and manipulating all of us. I complained one day, twice I had an appointment from Governor Seyi Makinde. I came to Ibadan, but he never saw me. And you said you’re fighting for the South? All the northern candidates were moving, they almost got a consensus – Aminu Tambuwal, Bukola Saraki, Bala Mohammed. Atiku was the only one who stood alone. And Atiku had gone to Wike and told him two things: Let us run together, Wike said okay. After he left, Wike started plotting against Secondus. Secondly, Atiku told PDP if you are doing zoning, if you zone to the South East I will not contest. Wike said no. Nobody is telling the truth about this thing, that’s what happened. They did not allow South East to get zoning. So, why did Wike run if he believed it was the turn of the South? And if he believed it was the turn of the South, how come you did not believe that it was the turn of the South East?
You spoke about structure earlier as being very crucial to party politics and electoral success. When we look at the structure in Nigeria today, PDP has 13 governors and five of them are rebels. They’re rebelling against the structure and against your principal. When you look at that, wouldn’t you say PDP is likely to lose the election?
No. When you talk about structures, there are super structures and there are weak structures. When you are an outgoing governor, you become a lame duck. You can see Buhari now. He is very peaceful and very calm and very nice. You saw the way he was almost dancing with Governor Adeleke when he went to visit him in Aso Rock. It’s because he’s on his way out. He knows that if you want some friends to play within the next few months, he has to be nice to as many people as possible.
That is why I pray that the G-5 will see the wisdom in not burning the bridge that led you to where you are and of all of them, Wike has nothing to lose. He’s a second term governor and he doesn’t want to e a senator. The others, Seyi Makinde wants to be governor, the others want to be senators. Don’t forget also that Atiku’s name is not going to be on the ballot. It is PDP that would be on the ballot. So, how are you going to tell the unlettered voter that he should vote PDP here and don’t vote it there? How? So, it’s going to be confusion galore. If I were them, they should act – and fortunately I think they are all Christians – they should learn from the Bible. How many times shall I forgive my enemy? Seventy times seven times replied Jesus Christ. There is nothing they’re fighting for. Whatever they claimed they have done for PDP, PDP has done more for them. PDP has been extremely kind to them. I knew Wike as a local government chairman. I knew him as Chief of Staff to Rotimi Amaechi. Amaechi and I have been friends since he was Speaker. So, I know Wike very well. Wike used to tell me when I started consulting for him, that he used to watch me and Amaechi when we were carrying helicopters in Rivers State. The same Wike that said I’m a boy – one Dele Momodu that did not score anything. Atiku has told us that we can’t attack our governors. We respect the office even if we do not respect the person. We must respect the office.
However, I like Wike, he’s probably the best governor in Nigeria. I’ve said it many times. He’s good at what he does – infrastructure. Even if he did not do other things like social interaction or interventions and others, he is very good in infrastructure. He picked a niche for himself that’s why we call him Mr. Project. But in life, no matter who you are, you can be offended because you too you offend people. Every day he insults people, the insults he has heaped on Ayu and Atiku… This is Africa, you don’t attack your elders like that even if you are angry. Anyway, you promised that you would support anyone that emerges so, if he was picked as the Vice President would he be complaining about Ayu today?
Young Nigerians who are going to vote are said to be more than 20 million. These young Nigerians don’t speak well of PDP and APC and you are representing one of the two blocs. How are you trying to bring them into believing what you are saying and buy what you are selling?
In which town hall did you hold a meeting and the young people told you that they don’t like APC and they don’t like PDP? A lot of the people I see around Atiku are young people. A lot of people I see around Tinubu, they’re young people. A lot of people I see around Obi are young people. So, it’s a split down the line. I remember one occasion when Ovation Magazine did a story: The Wedding of Abacha’s Daughter many years ago. A friend of mine declared a fatwa on Ovation. He said he would make sure nobody buys Ovation again because ‘how can Ovation of all magazines feature Abacha’s daughter’s wedding?’ That taught me a big lesson. Do you know that was the first time every copy of Ovation sold out? All his enemies bought it, all his friends bought it. So, stop listening to rumours. Then we also have one weakness in the South, it’s like the case of the idols in a cave as written by Francis Bacon. It is so clear that we see ourselves within our own cave, called the enclave. Have they gone to other places and to the interior? When I see all the opinion polls, in all the polling that have been done, they will say Obi is the next president of Nigeria. Where? In which country? Have you been to Jigawa? Have you been to Zamfara? There are places in Nigeria where they’ve never heard the name of Obi ever in their lives. Are they not going to vote? The real voters are there. They have 19 states. If all the states in the South East vote Peter Obi, Rabiu Musa Kwankwaso said “the three Ks” – Kano, Kaduna Katsina – will wipe out the entire thing. So, don’t let us be deceiving ourselves in the South. That is why people are giving Tinubu false hope that he will win. How? You’re not winning in your own place, you lost Osun, your own state and you’re depending on Ganduje. Does Ganduje have power beyond Kano? And in the same Kano you have Rabiu Kwankwaso, in the same Kano you have Ibrahim Shekarau. How? That is the only place he is relying on. He cannot get 10 per cent in Sokoto, Zamfara. It will be Atiku all over. The North East, they’ve not had a president since Tafawa Balewa. You think they will leave that opportunity and then go and follow Shettima. You’ll leave Number One to go and follow Number Two?
Conversely sir, how will that affect the South West?
How? Because he needs all the votes he can get. He doesn’t have South East, he doesn’t have South South. So, if he doesn’t have North East where his vice comes from, so, where will he get?
If the North East votes Atiku because he is their son, what will that tell the people of the South West?
There’s always a pattern. What happens is that we are amongst the most enlightened voters in Nigeria. We are so educated in the South West. There’s no individual who can stand up today and dictate to people and say ‘this is where you must vote’. You can’t do it here. So, that’s the problem. Tell me how many states that you think Tinubu can get 60 per cent? There’s nothing Tinubu can do. The pathway to victory is that you must lockdown the South West, South South, South East and then go to the North Central. Whatever you can get in the North East and North Central will be a bonus. If Tinubu had locked down the South – let him even lock down South West – he doesn’t have Oyo 100 per cent; he doesn’t have Osun, he doesn’t have Ogun 100 per cent – Lado and all of them are waiting there.
Last week, President Buhari was in Yobe State to rally support for the candidates of the APC, not just Tinubu. Given the cult-like following the man enjoys in the North, one wonders how you’re still optimistic that Atiku will win.
Buhari is not on the ballot paper. He was there the last time and despite that, go and check what Atiku got in the North. He got 5 million votes or thereabouts despite Buhari being there as a sitting president. Tinubu is not the same. And Tinubu is not a Fulani man nor is he a Hausa man. From Kwara all the way to Borno, Atiku is in charge. He built it and God gave him good health because it requires endurance.
Do you believe in the present INEC to deliver the kind of free and fair election you have in mind?
When I was travelling on the Lagos – Ibadan expressway, I said it’s a shame that Buhari is not able to complete it in eight years. That is almost impossible now between now and May. He’s not able to complete so many projects between now and May. But if there is any one project that can give him legacy, it is free and fair election. And you can see he’s been talking about it. Some people don’t even want the election to take place but he has said no wa, the election must take place. There are some people who profit in crisis, they don’t want Nigeria to hold that election but Buhari knows that the only thing left for him is the conduct of free and fair elections. That’s what gave Baba Obasanjo the confidence that he has all over the world because he’s a statesman because he left power voluntarily. So, I am very confident. Even the Professor (Mahmoud Yakubu) wants to leave a good name because most INEC chairmen we’ve had in Nigeria they’ve all gone into oblivion because they did not deliver. If you deliver, you will live in peace and comfort, even the prayers of the people will follow you for the rest of your days on earth.
You said something about Tinubu believing that he is similar to MKO Abiola, that he will be able to replicate that. What makes him different from MKO Abiola that would make it impossible for him to repeat that feat achieved by Abiola.
MKO Abiola was never a career politician. He was a consummate professional, technocrat and businessman. Tinubu would have been called a technocrat but he left Mobil for donkey years and he has not done any business that I’m aware of. Abiola was a bridge builder. Tinubu, as far as I know, has been building bridges around Lagos and maybe the South West, he has never been a national player. It was APC that brought him to the national level that is why they started calling him the national leader. MKO Abiola was so detribalised, he established businesses and was at a time probably the largest employer of labour in Nigeria. He built Banuso Fisheries in Lagos and had Abiola Farms in Lafiagi, Kwara State; he had his rice mill in Dakka, Taraba State. On a site day, he donated N1million to about 30 universities in Nigeria. He built churches, he built mosques, funded libraries and so on. Even when we had crisis in Yoruba land Tinubu was nowhere to be found. If there is crisis in the North, Tinubu will be the first to go there because he is relying more on outsiders to make him president than his own people. When Sunday Igboho was being attacked and was almost hacked to death, our own Asiwaju was nowhere to be found. Small me that hasn’t got .0001 per cent of Tinubu’s capacity, I travelled to Cotonou to see Sunday Igboho in prison. Im not a Yoruba nation person but whatever affects any Nigerian affects you and affects all of us. When the bandits were rampaging, I went to see Sheikh Gumi in Kaduna to ask him what is the solution. I went to see Aare Ona Kakanfo, Chief Gani Adams. I’ve never seen Tinubu do any of that. It’s only when election is here now that we started seeing him going to places. I’ve been participating in politics without being a member of a political party. In 1999, I supported Chief Olu Falae against Chief Obasanjo on principle. I’ve not seen that principle in Tinubu. That’s why a lot of us who were co-comrades during the NADECO era are not there. They’re no longer there because the man they see, they can see that it’s all about grabbing power. It’s not something you can build overnight. I think and I’m convinced that Atiku’s time has come.
Will your candidate be available for a debate?
Atiku has attended debates already. The only person who has not attended any debate is Tinubu. Atiku has attended debates in Arise TV. He attended debate at Channels TV. He did one in Abuja and did one in Lagos. Atiku can never run away from a debate. Even on Monday, he spoke at the Nigerian Economic Summit. Earlier on he spoke at the Lagos Business School which was very well received.
Why do you think Tinubu is avoiding debates?
Tinubu, I’m sorry, due to no fault of his, is physically unfit. Anybody can be sick, so I’m not trying to disparage him. If you’re sick, you’re sick if you’re weak, you’re weak. If I’m weak, I’m sure my wife will advise me not to run, no matter how much I stand to gain as president of Nigeria. She will tell me to come home and stay and play with my children and grandchildren. But, you know, for Tinubu politics is his life. Politics is his blood. So, he is not going to agree, even if he is on a wheelchair, I’m sure he will continue to insist that he must be president of Nigeria. And that’s very unfortunate. People ask me, ‘he’s your good friend’, I agree but I place Nigeria above friendship. If I felt he had the capacity physically, mentally and otherwise to run Nigeria, I would support him. But I’m convinced in my heart of hearts that his time has passed. There was a time, maybe five-six years ago. Everybody has his peak. Tinubu has peaked. I will say it anywhere and it’s not about age. Atiku, officially, is older than him, but God has blessed Atiku with good health. God has blessed him with good business sense. You can see that he has visible sources of income unlike other politicians who live permanently on collecting money from state governments, from local governments and from everywhere. That is my view about it.
It’s clear to me that after running for 30 years, Atiku’s time has come finally. He’s going to win. I have no doubt. And this is based on simple empirical facts. You need 25 per cent in 24 states for you to become president of Nigeria. Atiku will get 25 per cent in all the northern states. He might not win every state, but he will win all the three regions in the north. He will take the lead and he will get 25 per cent in 19 states. If you come down south, he will need just five states more to get 24. He will get all five in the South South, which is PDP. They have Odo in their blood. And, even in the South East where Obi is expected to do phenomenally well because of the prevailing sentiment and emotions, after Obi, if Obi manages to win to be in the lead, the next person will be Atiku. He’s had a long-standing relationship, apart from marrying in the place with them. His running mates have always come from there. His personal doctor, Dr. Ndukwe is an Igbo man who has been treating Atiku for 24 years. If you come to the South West, Lagos is going to be split to three. There will be Tinubu, there will be Atiku and there will be Obi because of the preponderance of the Igbo community in Lagos State. If you leave and go to Ogun State, you know he will get his 25 per cent any day. If you go to Oyo State, there is no way he will not get 25 per cent. From time immemorial, Ibadan has always had strong opposition. If you now go to Osun, PDP is in control in Osun. Governor Adeleke is new, he’s fresh and he’s loved. He is very popular. So, things are looking very good for Atiku, not because he is Atiku but because he has taken time to build the bridges.
Look at Ghana, it took President John Kuffour three attempts to win the presidency. If you look at President Atta-Mills after him, it took him three times, the current president, Professor Nana Akufo-Addo all ran three times. It took President George Weah 12 years while it took President Buhari four attempts from 2003 to 2015 for him to become the president. So, it’s the same process. It’s not an overnight thing. I have done it twice in 2011 and 2022, I know the nitty-gritty and what it takes. Now that I’m the Director of Strategic Communications, I said I can never contest again because what it entails, even the eyes cannot see it all.
How do you mean? We want to know.
The Ife will advise that you don’t look for some serious secrets. Firstly, I will tell you that it is about structure. The ‘Obidients’ have been abusing me since I mentioned structure, but it is the reality. If you don’t build your structures, it will not stand. I was very heavy in the Buhari campaign in 2015. The agents alone – you have to get agents in every voting booth across Nigeria. That alone will cost you almost N25 billion. Check the number of polling booths in Nigeria. Back then, Naira was stronger and if you give somebody N500 – N1,000 it would be okay. But now, you will need to pay maybe N2,000 – N5,000 and in some instances, you need about two agents. Multiply this and then calculate it. Then you need donors. In Nigeria, donors only donate to ready-made candidates. They permutate. Who has the chance? And you know that the business community, what you call the corporate entities in Nigeria, knows that Atiku is the only one who understands business. A man who has never managed people and resources, even if he becomes president, it will be difficult for him. Of the candidates we have now, the only people doing visible business is Atiku and Peter Obi. I don’t know of any business Tinubu has run himself personally. I don’t know it. So, it is clear to me that Atiku’s time has come finally and it is going to be a sweet story to tell, a story of uncommon courage; a story of tenacity, a story of focus, never-say-die spirit… It’s going to be a story for younger ones that if you have a dream, stick to your dream and remain focused. Eventually, fortune and fame may smile at you.
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